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[Discussion] Selling items in the foums; What is legal?

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#1
Posted on 2013-04-27 20:40:58 | Show thread starter's posts only

If you read the forum rules (below this paragraph).....
it is illegal to advertize anything for sale or trade for other than in game coin or non bound* game items.

* bound items must first be unbound with unbinding tool before sale.
If an item can not be unbound with an unbinding tool it is an illegal sale.


Why?:
Because we do not want to take the responsibility for you and other players being cheated.
Unless the trade AND receipt of payment can be guaranteed, it is considered an illegal sale.



20.   Account and Item selling and/or trading

Acceptable/Permitted:

  • Advertising; for sale, trade, or a desire to purchase non-permanently bound game items, for in game money or for trade of other in game non-permanently bound items, between players on the same server
  • Advertising; for sale, trade, or a desire to purchase non-permanently bound game items, for in game money or for trade of other in game non-permanently bound items between players on different servers using server transfer provided by SkyUnion (IGG).
  • Advertising; for sale, trade, or desire to purchase; VCO non-permanently bound Item Mall items, for in game money or for trade of  other in game non-permanently bound items between players on the same server
  • Advertising; for sale, trade, or desire to purchase; VCO non-permanently bound Item Mall items for in game money or for trade of  other in game non-permanently bound items between players  on different servers using server transfer provided by SkyUnion (IGG).
  • Giving away an IGG/VCO account (passwords and email) for free is NOT advisable but is ok under the rules.  But any problems occurring such as missing items or ownership disputes or any other type of argument between the 2 trading parties can only be handled by live support . History shows they MIGHT look up which IP address was used the most or most recently for that account and decide that should be the owner, But do not EXPECT any help.



Prohibited:
Note; You of course can buy IGG points for others using the points buying interface @ http://pay.igg.com/?g_id=5
But asking for payment from others for doing this is considered illegal.  Yes, it is often seen in the game, but  it is technically against game rules to do this because there is no way to insure that either party stays honest in the exchange process.

Note; You can also buy Item Mall items for others and send the items to their accounts using the interface on the item mall "Check Out" page by clicking the "Present for Others" button.  Exchanging Mall Items for items or coin this way is also considered illegal, because again there is no way to insure that either party stays honest in the exchange process.

The 2 purchase methods were intended as a GIFTING method  such as parents buying points for their children and not as a method of trade or exchange.  You will (most likely) not be reimbursed or compensated if you attempt to do a trade using these methods are are cheated or scammed.  Therefore advertising these methods in the forum is not allowed.

Prohibited:
  • Advertising; for sale, trade, or a desire to purchase permanently bound game items for ANY type of compensation between players on the same server or different servers
  • Advertising for sale, trade, or desire to purchase;  permanently bound VCO Item Mall items for ANY form of payment on any server or combination of servers.
  • Advertising for sale, trade, or desire to purchase;  non-permanently bound game items for any type of payment other than in game coin or trade of non-permanently bound game items on the same server or on different servers using server transfer provided by SkyUnion (IGG).
  • Advertising for sale, trade, or desire to purchase;  non-permanently bound VCO Item Mall items for any type of payment other than in game coin or trade of non-permanently bound game items on the same server or on different servers using server transfer provided by SkyUnion (IGG).
  • Advertising for sale, trade, or desire to purchase VCO game items or in game money between players through an outside 3rd party business or individual or any kind of out of game trading or transferring
  • Advertising for sale, trade, or desire to purchase IGG/VCO account(s) for ANY form of payment or compensation (including, but not limited to; real money, other game coin, IGG game coin, physical items, labor etc..
  • Advertising for sale, trade, or desire to purchase of VCO Item Mall Points for ANY in game items or any other form of payment.
  • Advertising, advocating, or using any method of sale or trade not covered in the descriptions above.




- Ele

[ Last edited by xanthian31 at 2013-4-27 17:52 ]

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#2
Posted on 2013-04-28 06:06:07 | Show thread starter's posts only

What if someone is selling bound items but he wants the buyer to pay for unbinding, is that legal?

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#3
Posted on 2013-04-28 06:24:30 | Show thread starter's posts only

dsofa,  problem is items that cannot be bound in any way and scams involved other trades

those include, sb carms, overlords, etc.

if unbindable equipment is listed, then its considered as account sale ( remember, cant unbind so how you pass em over? )

so in short:
1. no real money.
2. no IM
3 no unbindable items.
4 no binded gear.

why gear must be unbound, easy answer . getting high level unbinding tool FROM buyer might result you walking away with the tool.
so you want to sell it, unbind it.
too many scams, too many people hurt while doing strange descisions and are then surprised they get scammed.

[ Last edited by vip666 at 2013-4-28 07:33 ]

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#4
Posted on 2013-04-28 06:52:00 | Show thread starter's posts only

Everything is Bound anyway so nothing can be traded
So what is points of Trade forum section? just close it down, no need for that.

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#5
Posted on 2013-04-28 06:53:45 | Show thread starter's posts only

I understand that vip, but I'm talking about items that can be unbound, but the seller doesn't want to pay for it. I see this very often.

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#6
Posted on 2013-04-28 07:35:29 | Show thread starter's posts only

i understand you very well, we both played the game for ages. see problem in forum advertizing is that it must eliminate the possibility for people to scam others (or take it to the minimal level)

now who and how makes sure, that you will get it later
in example i want to sell you 150 sword. its binded. so you must provide me the unbinding tool.
after getting it i say, oops sorry and log out. and transfer out  of server or just ignore your pm-s.

with unbinded item its easy in ingame money, you open trade windo and put as trade the amount of silver or gold ingots.

same goes for IM. noone can assure i get item after giving you the im on acc, OR even worse. i buy ime with credit card to your account, i cancel the order after you get the points. you spend the points and IGG looks it as a scam and YOU were the one that benefit from trade. and guess whose account gets banned?

what people do ingame is out of our reach. but in forums there are rules. and those rules are at the moment in use.

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#7
Posted on 2013-04-28 13:57:36 | Show thread starter's posts only

DSOFA  and everyone...

If a player has a bound item... he needs to unbind it before trading it.

The seller can link the item in chat to show it is bound (to the buyer)... then use a unbinding stone that he, the seller has bought.
(as said above buyer should not provide the stone for free or 1 coin or any low amounet of game money because they can be cheated.. they should instead, sell it to the bound item seller for a prearranged realistic game price)
Then include in the sale price the cost of the unbinding stone. ( price should obviously be negotiated before the trade interface is opened... and probably negotiated ..for the sellers sake... before they unbind the object .. so they can continue to use the item if the buyer doesn't like the price).

However... we obviously can not guarantee that the seller did not have 2 of that item  one bound the other not bound.
So it is up to the buyer to pay attention to the actual object put into the trade interface. (insure that; not only is it un-bound but is the correct item and has the same stats!!)

This is a "risk" any player takes in buying an object that can be bound or actually ANY object at all... we can do nothing about this risk...
but the player will get the object even if it is overpriced unlike "illegal sales" where you might not get the item at all.


Because this type of trade uses the game interface it is a legal sale.



Please note that the Unbinding Tools can only be used on equipment worn by the character or a Figurehead.

Unbinding Tools CAN NOT be used on;
1) ship parts except for Figureheads
2) Pet Jewels


... and maybe other things  ...sigh

under NO circumstances can charms be unbound...
so any charm that is listed for sale is automatically against the rules

Pets... Urus, Hellwolf, Fairy, Shadow Reaper, Panda Hero, Tiger General, Unicorn, Police lizard can not be unbound or traded unless they are still in the box form as bought from a City Guild Supplier.. only Police Lizard and Hellwolf and possibly Urus (from dragon boat races) are in the box form. (if they are trade-able... someone has abused a bug)

only sea apparatus  from MA cities/Malta can be unbound

some beliefs and apparatus that can be from the IM, but most cannot be unbound at all.. so this is another buyer beware item.

Certificates of Overlord's and a Ruler's Glory etc can only be given to alt characters (same IP address) via special services..

Buying and selling of colonies (money trade can not be assured)

- Ele

please feel free to add other items that un-binding stones can NOT be used on!!

[ Last edited by xanthian31 at 2013-4-29 05:46 ]

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#8
Posted on 2013-04-28 19:04:28 | Show thread starter's posts only

its like i was telling someone the other day
if someone is selling an item that cant be unbound by any normal game means
then they are either
1. Selling their account, which is against the rules
or
2. Using some exploit to make items tradeable or drop.... which also is against the rules

so its from both the perspective of rules and liability, the forum shouldnt be involved in insecure transactions that are so easy to scam.

i also understand what dsofa said about the tools, i agree with Ele's point of view
the cost of unbinding should be calculated into the sale and the tool sold for said amount
any item u "give" to another player without any form of payment upfront is potential for being ripped off


all of this also includes colonies and guilds....
there is no way to securely trade/buy/sell a guild or colony

payment has to be made before or after the buyer is made leader of the guild
so that means either the buyer or seller has a prime opportunity to scam the other
they get the guild and dont cough up the money, or the seller gets the money and never makes the buyer guild leader


people buy and sell stuff ingame for real money, IM etc
if everything goes fine, nothing is heard from them
but as soon as one of them is cheated, first thing they do is come to the forum to tell everyone they got ripped off and who did it
most then blame IGG and want IGG to do something, they want IGG to police people in those cases
but when it comes to other stuff and rules, they want IGG off their backs and to leave them alone....


now am i saying the binding system and all is good or fair?
NO not by any means
but we have the system we have until it changes

binding is here to stay, that is a given
but some things can be done to make the system work better
make items bound after equipping, so ppl can sell and trade them until they are actually used
make insignificant items like gear drops unbound totally
make all items able to be unbound, and make the unbinding tools cheap.... realistically priced


til then, any deal that cant be done securely is buyer beware and solely between the buyer and seller
and since they arent allowed/sanctioned by the company shouldnt be on the games forum

other companies have strict policies to deal with possible scams too
take ebay for example, they have rules about bootlegs, rip offs of name brand items, buyer nonpayment, etc

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#9
Posted on 2013-04-30 19:10:55 | Show thread starter's posts only

bump for those still trying to post accounts and such items for sale

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